gender-based observations

[piranha]

i was really glad the doctor and gary the scot were bantering with each other and with me. i love banter, especially when i feel crappy. it distracts me. it lightens the load a little. it gives the impression that things aren't that bad, that i can laugh problems in the face. it makes me feel like i am an equal to those who're treating me; we're all people and while i can't fix an unstable heart, they can't fix an unstable debian system.

during this episode, just like in situations before when i have been a patient, it's always some men who banter, and hardly ever any women. not a single woman bantered with me this time; one bantered with gary the scot. the women were either quiet and detached / very businesslike, or solicitous. neither works really well for me, though the former works better than the latter. some detached mannerisms make me feel like i am just a thing to them that they push and pull around according to what they need, regardless of my feelings about the matter. since they're trying to help me that's acceptable, but it leaves me feeling a bit inhuman. especially when they're also careless about restoring my comfort when they leave me -- not putting the blanket back over my exposed skin, for example, not returning my glasses to me.

solicitousness is much worse; it puts me into the role of an inferior, a helpless person, childlike; it stresses that things are bad, that i am to be pitied. it focusses the attention on the problem, doesn't let me escape a little. and i feel that if i laugh, they'll feel insulted that i am not appreciative of their efforts (and they are efforts; they are wrong for me, but i always appreciate people trying to help).

i am quite certain that the detached manner makes a lot of people feel bad, but i understand why health care practitioners do it; the job can eat you alive unless you keep some degree of detachment, and it's not easy to find the right degree. i'm also quite certain the solicitous manner works very well for vast numbers of people who come to hospital scared and anxious and feeling bad for themselves. and women in health care roles do that one generally better than men. but i almost always gravitate towards men in such situations, and the ones i stick with have a hearty sense of humour. it has nothing whatsoever to do with my assessment of their competence, just with comfort.

Comments

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

I hate solicitous. I can hold it together if I've received bad news right up to the point where somebody is kind to me - then I lose it. I was holding onto my distress about losing my teeth until everybody starting acting all concerned, and then I started with the waterworks. Ugh.

Detached is best if I've just had bad news. Banter is best if I'm going in for something that's routine for them, scary for me. It's reassuring.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

*nods*

this spring when things were moderately sucky here chez kalmn, i could deal with life better if people weren't nice to me. mean was not required, but nice made me lose it. i'd go over to my parents' house, they'd be, you know, my parents, and whoosh, the waterworks. my mom bought me a few massages, and they were fabulous and necessary to keeping me together, and afterwards i couldn't be around people for about an hour or else the crying. blah!

[elynne.livejournal.com]

When I got bonked on the head and sent to the hospital several years ago, I definitely went for the banter/humour interactions; it made me feel a lot better to make the hospital techs who poked me crack up. I always appreciate health care people who can chat and laugh with me, rather than the ones who are OMG SERIOUS BUSINESS. I either don't often get the solicitous reaction, or I don't notice it when I do.

[boxofdelights]

Interesting!

What I get at the hospital seems to depend on what I put out. When I am in distress (at the emergency room with appendicitis; in for a post-miscarriage D&C) I get solicitousness from women and men that will not take no for an answer. (Demerol does not "take the edge off" pain or fear, for me; it takes away from my ability to cope. Please stop suggesting it.)

When I am self-possessed (in hospital after the appendectomy; having a mammogram; having a biopsy after a bad mammogram) I get banter, personal stories, praise for being "tough", joking praise for being "a compliant patient".

Doesn't seem to depend on whether the care provider is a woman or a man, a doctor or a nurse.

action and reaction

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

yes, i wonder how much this has to do with what i put out, but i have a hard time comparing since i don't change much, and i have a relatively small sample size as a patient. i've always just been in hospital when i was in physical distress but at the same time seem self-possessed (somebody will inevitably comment on that, so that's not just my imagination). it could be that i am actively inviting banter directed at me, since i will usually make small jokes myself. (if so, how come women don't seem to feel moved to respond in kind?)

a couple of times i went in for (simple) tests, where everything was just business-like from all sides; nobody bantered at all. (and i didnt start it because i am not all that funny when i am just "there", and business-like suits me just fine then.)

though when i was a health care professional myself it did always seem like, while there is some overlap, men banter much more than women.

[beaq.livejournal.com]

Are the women performing essentially the same jobs?

I'm not very comfortable with coddling, either, and am not always sure what to do with people who do want that.

This reminds me of a hobby horse I occasionally ride around my brain, regarding people's assertions that women aren't funny (or creative). IMO, it's hard to be funny if you are trying to make sure everyone feels OK.

Re:gender-based observations

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

Are the women performing essentially the same jobs?

not really. this has IME ranged from ER doctors through interns, registered and licensed practical nurses, paramedics, and various specialist technicians.

this time a paramedic was solicitous, the EKG tech was detached (on the side of uncaring; she didn't introduce herself, talked over me, didn't look me in the eye, she left me half-nekkid; i was cold), 2 RNs were businesslike, the respiratory tech was mildly solicitous but in a manner i can handle (just light friendly-like), one other probably-nurse who seemed to just amble around bantered with gary the scot but was solicitous to me.

among the men the doctor, gary the scot (either an RN or a nurse practitioner or one of those in-between jobs), and an RN whose name i didn't catch bantered. the lead paramedic started out very businesslike, then warmed up some and bantered a wee bit with me in the ambulance, a second guy was businesslike, the third incredibly nervous (his hands were shaking when he put the blood pressure cuff on me, he must have been really new to all this). i expect paramedics to be more businesslike in front of a patient and reserve the banter for amongst themselves, they're the frontline defense, it's a very demanding job to do all the right things _and_ get the tone just right; businesslike is safest.

that hobby horse is a good one. i think it's total bunk that women aren't funny (or creative). some of my favourite comedians are women, and that barely even touches the creative realm that women populate with amazing works of art and craft.

but when it comes to banter, i think the average woman is less into it than the average man. i don't know whether that maps to women feeling more responsible for making sure everyone is ok than men -- that would certainly work in much of everyday life. except i don't see quite how that works in hospital where men are just as responsible for that (though i know women still tend to feel that more of it falls on their shoulders, such as mediating between doctors and patients).

in my personal life i banter with many of my male friends, but with almost none of my female ones. not for lack of trying, it just doesn't work. it turns into a mutual "oh i hope that didn't hurt you, i didn't mean to" fest, or worse, the feeling that somebody did get hurt and is sulking but is just not saying anything.

Re: gender-based observations

[betonica.livejournal.com]

i expect paramedics to be more businesslike in front of a patient and reserve the banter for amongst themselves, they're the frontline defense, it's a very demanding job to do all the right things _and_ get the tone just right; businesslike is safest.

That could be true, but my experience with paramedics (and basic EMTs and I-techs) is that they banter if it fits with their personality, and not if they don't. (Some of them banter specifically because it is such a demanding job.) I haven't ridden with my instructor, but she banters constantly outside the ambulance and in the classes I took with her. The other female EMTs I know don't joke much, nor do the men, except for one totally irreverent medic I know who cracks me up. I should see if I can get ride time in his bus.

So I'm not necessarily seeing the gender difference you are, but my sample is also pretty small; I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was much more banter from men than women if we could look at a wider pool.

Me, I don't banter much because I don't think I'm funny, and am never quite sure what to say that would go over well. I don't know that that's a female thing.

[amagranz.livejournal.com]

well-stated. i agree completely about banter vis-a-vis solicitousness (the one time i was ambulanced out of trouble, i was a-joke-a-minute, and the male paramedics responded in kind), but had never thought of it in terms of gender before. could it be that banter has to do with a sense of stoicism in the face of trouble that is generally seen as more "masculine" in most cultures?

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

I am a definitely pro-banter female. I do it myself. I don't mind being ignored as a person as long as the medical person is doing their job. I dislike solicitous, no matter what the situation.

When I am sick at home, I want to be left alone, with possibly an occasional "Do you want anything?" asked in a factual tone. I do try to remember that when other family members are sick, they may want a different approach.

As for humor, in the course of my life two people have accused me of being totally humorless. I have a very dry sense of humor, inherited/learned from my father and his mother (the grandparent I was closest to). Lots of people don't recognize it. Sigh.

[offcenter-wc.livejournal.com]

I remember one late-night post-surgical incident last decade where I had crawled out of bed one night. Here I am, catheter tube inserted, two abdominal drains and bags taped to my abdomen, temporary colostomy bag hanging off my side, large gauze patch where the intestinal incision had been made, IVs in my arm attached to the tower that held the morphine and other drips, and me, grungy and unable to take a bath and bed hair from hell, just taking the IV tower for a cruise down the hall at 3 AM.

Concerned faces at the nursing station as I shuffle down the hall.

"Hey, Warren, anything you need?"

"Naah, just cruising for chicks, ya know?"

Grins all around. I loved it.

(I blame it on the morphine, but one thing I found was that if you're up and bantering with the staff, when things get rough, they know and react a lot faster, which is good.)

[beckyzoole.livejournal.com]

I've noticed much the same thing. My sister, an RN, is a major exception. She's always been able to banter, and does it well. She works in a hospital outpatient surgery clinic, and says that she's often requested to assist at vasectomies for just that reason -- when a man's getting that sort of surgery, he tends to prefer a nurse who'll make bawdy jokes than one who'll be solicitous.