not so good

[piranha]

just got email from M, the paramour's brother, and J now has a secondary lung infection, is unconscious, and had to be intubated. *sigh*.

these are the times that many people of faith pray. it's probably a good thing that i no longer have that sort of faith. prayer never did make sense to me; surely an omniscient god already knows, and if zie really decides our fate on an individual basis, why would i think i could -- or even should -- affect the decision in any way? i'd probably just rail against zir, being as zie lets really bad people live. i just can't believe in the benevolence of a being who leaves people struggling for every breath -- if it's their time, just take them. if not, whatever they have to learn, this isn't usually teaching it. i know. i've watched so many of them when i worked in hospital. so, no comfort in prayer.

the only thing i know to do is keep busy, and support the people at J's side with small actions and possibly the right words, if i can find them. i hope modern medicine can pull J through.

Comments

[snippy]

I think small actions and the right words are good and helpful.

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

I agree with snippy. And, for what it's worth, while I don't precisely pray in the direction of a deity, I do think that "energy" / moral-support / what-have-you is at worst harmless, and might be helpful. If nothing else, it seems to be helpful for the families to know that people care (even if in a vague sort of well-being of strangers way).

In that spirit, therefore, I offer Good Thoughts for the well-being of J and zir family. Including you.

thinking good thoughts

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

i've often wondered about this, and especially in connection with you. you know i like you, right? :)

i think that moral support can be very helpful to people, and i accept the efficacy of prayer (and well wishings) in that role, if it is to convey "i know you're having a hard time, i sympathize, and i wish you all the best" -- it can help people to feel less alone, and it can give strength they in turn can use to help the person who's in trouble.

i don't believe that there is any actual physical force that emanantes from good thoughts which can affect strangers who're miles away from oneself, which is why i always have a hard time when you're asking for such help (you and other people who ask for CEPTs, frex) -- i mean, if it had an actual effect on the afflicted person, i'd happily think those thoughts, and i most definitely sympathize with you, but i can't pretend that i believe in the power of thoughts, and so i mostly stay quiet. and then i feel mildly guilty, *wry grin*.

may i ask whether you also feel that you're in some way failing if you don't think good thoughts for somebody? knowing myself, i would fall into that trap pretty immediately. if thought were power, i'd feel like i should be thinking good thoughts all day long because there are so many causes that could use more positive energy being directed at them.

that said, i definitely think it's harmless, and the idea is a hopeful one, so i don't feel at all like talking you out of it, or ridiculing it, and i appreciate the good wishes.

Re: thinking good thoughts

[djm4]

i don't believe that there is any actual physical force that emanantes from good thoughts which can affect strangers who're miles away from oneself, which is why i always have a hard time when you're asking for such help (you and other people who ask for CEPTs, frex)

There is no such actual physical force or, at least, I don't believe in one.

And yet I believe it works, and here's one way how: you (or someone else of similarly unimpeachable integrity and stubborn refusal to make promises lightly) say that you're going to think supportive, helpful thoughts. The person they're aimed at feels better, knowing that those thoughts are being thought, and it helps zir cope. Of course, technically it's your words rather than your thoughts that help, but it's your words backed up by the knowledge that you're not someone who says you're going to think good thoughts and then doesn't bother.

Re: thinking good thoughts

[elissaann.livejournal.com]

I actually do think that thought is power, because my thoughts affect my actions.

Singing, for example, is 99% thought. Hearing the note causes a nerve to give the right information to the muscles that shape the vocal folds, which then causes them to be shaped properly to sing the right note. Without the thought, I literally can't sing the right notes.

Whether I can affect someone miles away with just my thoughts, though...no idea.

I am wishing all the best for J and you and the paramour and the rest of the family.

Re: thinking good thoughts

[aquaeri.livejournal.com]

may i ask whether you also feel that you're in some way failing if you don't think good thoughts for somebody? knowing myself, i would fall into that trap pretty immediately. if thought were power, i'd feel like i should be thinking good thoughts all day long because there are so many causes that could use more positive energy being directed at them.

I'm also someone who is really uncomfortable with praying for people far away, just apart from being atheist. Rationally, it's because I can't see how it could work, and emotionally, I think the above is a major part - I would be guilt tripping myself and feeling totally miserable in no time flat.

Re: thinking good thoughts

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

I don't feel ridiculed; I did have to spend some time thinking about your questions.

I don't think I believe there is an "actual physical force that emanates from good thoughts". On the other hand, I have seen some really excellent results from "energy work". On the gripping hand, I'm a firm believer in the placebo effect. In the end, it seems to me, that placebo or not, if something works, go for it.

In part, I think it's like djm4 says: the person the good thoughts are aimed at feels better for knowing someone -- sometimes even a stranger -- cares, and so copes better.

In part, it helps *me* to know that even if I can't do anything directly, I can at least hope for the best.

I don't get the guilts about it, because I run it on a subconscious level most of the time. To use the phrase from the Ronco commercial, I "set it and forget it". Except that I don't really forget it; it's just not foremost in my brain. And if a specific time for good thoughts has been requested (e.g., for surgery or an interview) I will go so far as to put a note on my calendar to do so.

At the same time, because I *have* seen "energy work" do stuff, I am very very careful to not to assume that I know what should happen. And so I say things like "For X's well-being" rather than "for X's recovery", because if it is X's time to die, trying to drag zir back would be cruel.

I also will not, or at least have not ever, prayed for someone's death, even in extremis; I will always say something like "for the best possible outcome with the least possible distress" or "for the right thing to happen".

[firecat]

Aw crap.

Hoping for the best possible outcome.

[janetmk.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry.

[beaq.livejournal.com]

Fooey.

{pet}

[liv]

I am sometimes a praying sort of person, but I definitely don't pray in those kinds of circumstances, when someone I care about is seriously ill (or when I've just been bereaved). Mainly because I can't pray in way that I find to be meaningful or appropriate when I'm in that kind of state. I also tend to get very uncomfortable when people ask me to pray for someone else. That doesn't fit into my way of approaching religion.

[mayaknife.livejournal.com]

J now has a secondary lung infection, is unconscious, and had to be intubated

Just popping in here to note that the unconsciousness is induced. He was fighting the ventilator (unconciously) so they had to knock him out with morphine. Prior to that he was still responsive and recognized us. So he's not in a coma, thank god.