open-source boob project
Apr. 21st, 2008 20:36![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
piranhalinks to the open-source boob project [*] have been popping up on my flist, and i went to see. i started this as a comment in one of the journals linking, whose owner appeared positive about the project:
i have some _really_ mixed reactions to that post. this ferrett guy creeps me out, and the thing reminded me first and foremost of harlan ellison groping connie willis and the resultant comments from a lot of women about unwanted touching that happens to them at cons, and i had to shake that off first before i could think about the proposition more sensibly.
the main conflicting thoughts i have are:
a) do we really need more men touching women in semi-sexual ways at non-sexual events? and more fetishizing of boobs? the idea that women end up wearing buttons to make asking about boob-touching not ok repels me so strongly, i don't even have good words for that without descending into profanity. while it may all be sunshine and rainbows for those guys who get to cop a feel, it creates a hostile environment for women who do not wish to be around groping men because they've had their goddamned share of it already.
b) i am pretty sure it was a special thing for the people who started this, and it wasn't at all as skeevy as it sounded to me when recounted. a lot of people are touch-starved, and it would be nice if touch didn't carry such strong sexual messages, and if people could feel more free around touch even if it were mildly sexual. i am all for cuddle piles, and for straight-guy hugs, and for being affectionate with people one meets at an off-line gathering after knowing them for some time online. i wish i'd been part of a touch-friendly group when i grew up; i like the idea of touch being less scary, more friendly, of being able to allow some of one's curiosity about other people's bodies somewhat freer rein.
but this project doesn't seem to be what i'd be looking for. i don't like that it's called "the open-source boob project". there is a lot of justification from other people after the initial post -- that it wasn't just about boobs and it wasn't just women being touched. ok, but why the hell isn't it called the "open-source touch project" or the "open-source body project" then? why the emphasis on boobs? is that just the skeevy ferrett guy's perspective?
if i went to cons these days i'd probably stay far away from it, even though i am not inherently opposed to sharing some affectionate touch with relative strangers. i might wear a button that says "keep your grubby paws to yourself, or i'll touch your nuts with my boots".
[*] the entry has now changed; the original as i read it before all the edits is still available at the very end. all the comments are unfortunately gone. it looks like the writer has now started to understand a little of what was wrong with his ideas.
[ETA 04-23: the comments are back. there is some trollage, there is some over-the-top outrage, but amazingly, much of it is salient. impressive feedback. if i only thought the guy got it, but i don't really think so; he seems to have decided to have a pity party instead.]
i have some _really_ mixed reactions to that post. this ferrett guy creeps me out, and the thing reminded me first and foremost of harlan ellison groping connie willis and the resultant comments from a lot of women about unwanted touching that happens to them at cons, and i had to shake that off first before i could think about the proposition more sensibly.
the main conflicting thoughts i have are:
a) do we really need more men touching women in semi-sexual ways at non-sexual events? and more fetishizing of boobs? the idea that women end up wearing buttons to make asking about boob-touching not ok repels me so strongly, i don't even have good words for that without descending into profanity. while it may all be sunshine and rainbows for those guys who get to cop a feel, it creates a hostile environment for women who do not wish to be around groping men because they've had their goddamned share of it already.
b) i am pretty sure it was a special thing for the people who started this, and it wasn't at all as skeevy as it sounded to me when recounted. a lot of people are touch-starved, and it would be nice if touch didn't carry such strong sexual messages, and if people could feel more free around touch even if it were mildly sexual. i am all for cuddle piles, and for straight-guy hugs, and for being affectionate with people one meets at an off-line gathering after knowing them for some time online. i wish i'd been part of a touch-friendly group when i grew up; i like the idea of touch being less scary, more friendly, of being able to allow some of one's curiosity about other people's bodies somewhat freer rein.
but this project doesn't seem to be what i'd be looking for. i don't like that it's called "the open-source boob project". there is a lot of justification from other people after the initial post -- that it wasn't just about boobs and it wasn't just women being touched. ok, but why the hell isn't it called the "open-source touch project" or the "open-source body project" then? why the emphasis on boobs? is that just the skeevy ferrett guy's perspective?
if i went to cons these days i'd probably stay far away from it, even though i am not inherently opposed to sharing some affectionate touch with relative strangers. i might wear a button that says "keep your grubby paws to yourself, or i'll touch your nuts with my boots".
[*] the entry has now changed; the original as i read it before all the edits is still available at the very end. all the comments are unfortunately gone. it looks like the writer has now started to understand a little of what was wrong with his ideas.
[ETA 04-23: the comments are back. there is some trollage, there is some over-the-top outrage, but amazingly, much of it is salient. impressive feedback. if i only thought the guy got it, but i don't really think so; he seems to have decided to have a pity party instead.]
no subject
on 2008-05-20 16:04 (UTC)The semi-sexual touching...are you saying that there's no way to do such without it being at all sexual?
the touching of breasts
on 2008-05-20 23:06 (UTC)my reactions were directly to theferrett's post, not to what anyone else might've felt (since they hadn't said so at the time).
i think it's perfectly possible to touch a woman's breast without it being sexual. children do it all the time. :) medical professionals do it. bra fitters do it. and i think it's possible to do it at a party as a consciousness-raising exercise, or in a cuddle pile, without it being sexual. it depends on who touches, how they touch, and how the touched person feels about it.
just that the way theferrett described it, it was sexual, and that's all that was on his mind. this sort of project would cater to a lot of skeeviness if it spread. fortunately it seems dead in the water.