piranha: red origami crane (Default)
[personal profile] piranha
12 days ago i put a request in with LJ abuse to clarify some points about which i was confused after the official statements in [livejournal.com profile] lj_biz. today they got back to me. i asked about the following points and am including in italics the reply i received:

1. whether a clear age statement was sufficient to make an image safe.

Including a statement of age indicating that characters are 18+ can certainly help establish age, but it is not a "get of jail free pass", per se. We can't provide any additional information beyond what's stated at http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/241884.html on how age is determined.

2. whether putting such images into a zip file on an external site so they would never be displayed through livejournal would make them safe.
3. whether they'd report manga drawings of characters they decided were minors to NCMEC.

If you were linking to a zip file containing images of an apparent minor engaged in sexually explicit conduct, the content would be reported to the NCMEC as explained at http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/241884.html?thread=13712604#t13712604. You would either be asked to remove the material, or permanently suspended from the service depending on whether or not it was a questionable or very clear violation of the policy as explained in section (b) of http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/242136.html.

4. what repercussions there would be for a community and its maintainers if posters to it were suspended for posting images for which they got a strike or were suspended.

Actions are taken against individuals rather than communities as a whole unless a community as a whole exists primarily for posting material which is in violation of the Terms of Service. Community maintainers are generally only held accountable if a community is suspended, and they simply recreate a community for similar purposes. Communities are also suspended if there are ongoing violations in a community that continue after repeated efforts to inform the maintainers of the problem, and they are unable or unwilling to fix the problem.

i'm not into shota and chan at all, but this goes much further. i won't be sharing any manga here anymore, or anywhere on LJ. i don't want to bother to scrutinize each volume regarding whether the characters, despite the mangaka declaring them of age, might look like an apparent minor to LJ's "miller test" team. and i most definitely don't want to get reported to the FBI. i know they won't do anything about those idiot reports, but i want to be in their records as a potential child pornograper like i want a hole in the head.

and 6A's actions mean i will leave. they could act like sane people, leave enforcement to the law, and wait for a subpoena before ousting people, but they have decided to take it into their own hands to make harry potter slash fans into child pornographers. i don't hold with actual child pornographers; i find them a disgusting breed of people and they should damn well get locked up. but it trivializes actual abuse of children to go after folks whose fantasies include sex between completely fictional high school boys. and as an abuse survivor i won't support that sort of conflation, and don't want to support a service that engages in it.

on 2007-08-22 03:56 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] whey.livejournal.com

on 2007-08-22 04:20 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] juliansinger.livejournal.com
Sigh. I'm having to decide about this too.

You gonna journal elsewhere, or just stick to usenet and its ilk?

where to go

on 2007-08-22 06:01 (UTC)
ext_481: origami crane (Default)
Posted by [identity profile] pir-anha.livejournal.com
i'm gonna go journal elsewhere and RSS feed it, so at least all the people who're staying here can get it easily (though right now i am sorta annoyed that that will still provide content to LJ, but i am not gonna get my knickers in a knot over that).

haven't decided where else. i have an account on journalfen, but i am basically not a real fan, and feel mildly out of place there. greatestjournal has no actual policy that makes me feel any better about them than i feel about 6A. also, the name sucks. insanejournal has a clearer policy, but the name also sucks. i should check whether my old deadjournal still exists, and what their policy is. there is the site [livejournal.com profile] twocorpses is creating for fandom in specific. and the mods of [livejournal.com profile] yaoi_daily are beta-testing their own site, yaoi-fandom specific. since i am sorta part of that fandom more than any other, i'll definitely stake out a presence there, but that would remove me even more from non-yaoi-loving pals.

i don't know about usenet. i keep missing it, but whenever i try to rejoin, it doesn't stick. i think it's the hierarchy-bound structure -- even in groups i love, where topics are allowed to drift some (like alt.polyamory) i feel bound by the topic space. and i really don't want to talk about just polyamory anymore; it feels... old. i live it, and i have zero problems with it, and i don't want to re-chew all the newbie issues; i sound like a broken record. i want to talk about "whatever" with other people who're similarly interested in intelligent discourse.

while LJ is in some ways too insular, too alt.fan.me.me.me, one of the main advantages of the LJ platform is its easy community formation unrelated to specific interests -- the, albeit misnomered, friends list is so handy. if i leave, most of these friends will not be on the same site anymore. so i am pondering leaving the LJ platform altogether, and rolling my own site (parts of which i can then RSS feed). i've been playing with drupal the last few days, which is approaching what i actually want.

if i only were more energetic (and maybe more charismatic as well, *heh*). i have by now a pretty good idea what a social networking site would need to look like for me to really like it (and for other people i like to like it too). but i can't create it myself and then put in all the effort to cause others to follow.

Re: where to go

on 2007-08-22 08:11 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] crystlyte.livejournal.com
Understand your reasons, hate the results. Let us know where you land.

Re: where to go

on 2007-08-22 12:17 (UTC)
Posted by [personal profile] desh
Yeah, just please let us know where you end up. As long as I can read you, I don't really care where...

Re: where to go

on 2007-08-22 13:15 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] papersky.livejournal.com
If you did it, what would it be like?

And how much effort would it take? You have more friends than you think, and we might help with that bit.

Re: where to go

on 2007-08-22 13:24 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] lorres.livejournal.com
Well, you keep leaving communities where I can keep in touch, so perhaps this is goodbye yet again.

I understand and support your concerns and only hop0e there is a community that could fit your needs.

Re: where to go

on 2007-08-22 19:34 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] juliansinger.livejournal.com
I'm pretty sure, given our (somewhat minimal but less than zero, certainly) that I'd be a fan of any you-designed social networking site. (Though I don't know what Drupal's like?)

So if you wanted to try and create it, I think I agree with Papersky, there.

(Ditto on my 'trying to rejoin Usenet and bouncing off it'. It's vaguely frustrating.)

Re: where to go

on 2007-08-22 19:43 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] juliansinger.livejournal.com
err. The word interaction was supposed to go in that parenthesis.

on 2007-08-22 14:07 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] glass-garden.livejournal.com
Please keep us informed where you end up. I am thinking of leaving LJ myself.

on 2007-08-22 14:44 (UTC)
geekchick: (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] geekchick
I'm sorry you'll be leaving, but completely understand why; I'm not to the point of migrating elsewhere myself yet, but the thought has started to cross my mind. Please do let us know where you end up.

on 2007-08-22 15:47 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] wcg.livejournal.com
6A's actions mean i will leave

Damn. I'll miss you, even if I don't read the manga stuff. Where do you think you'll be going?

on 2007-08-24 03:51 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] azarias.livejournal.com
It occurs to me that I probably can't safely talk about my current favorite anime on LJ anymore, given that some of its major events can plotlines can be dumbed down to the sexual abuse of an apparent teenager by an apparent adult in a position of authority. The fact that the two characters are, respectively, a 400+ year old warlord and his 400+ year old vassal, of about the same age, and relative strength flows the opposite way in that relationship, I don't think would make an impact.


piranha: red origami crane (Default)
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