piranha: red origami crane (Default)
[personal profile] piranha
as a travel destination or layover: foreign citizens passing through US airports have almost no rights.

Mason said the U.S. government is interpreting its powers in such a way that passengers never intending to enter the U.S. connecting to international flights at U.S. airports must prove they are no threat and could be allowed to enter the country.

If passengers are deemed to be inadmissible, they have no constitutional rights even if later taken to an American prison. Mason told Judge David Trager that's because they are deemed to be still outside the U.S., from a legal point of view.


isn't that handy.

the interpretation means travellers can be detained without charge, denied the right to consult a lawyer, and even refused necessities such as food and sleep.

the only right i'd have is that to not be subjected to "gross physical abuse". somehow i am not relieved, because i know how the US weasels about torture, which it has conveniently defined as "pain consistent with major organ failure or death". and what's the punishment should i be tortured? can the guilty parties at least be sued (which might keep them in line)? nope. the U.S. Justice Department argues that even if torture does occur, U.S. officials can't be sued under the Torture Victims Protection Act because it only applies to foreign individuals committing or allowing torture.

fucking shrubwads.

on 2005-08-11 20:50 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] dubhain.livejournal.com
If we could get into Canada on a resident visa, we'd seriously be considering moving there. Unfortunately, even with [livejournal.com profile] mlion's Canadian relatives, we don't score high enough to get in.

on 2005-08-11 22:33 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] velochicdunord.livejournal.com
What are your areas of employment? The following professions are eligible to apply for jobs in Canada on one year renewable Treaty NAFTA visas: http://www.sackskolken.com/visas/trade_NAFTA.html

We have two americans employed at our studio as graphic designers under this provision who came north within the past eighteen months.

on 2005-08-11 22:35 (UTC)
Posted by [personal profile] cheshyre
Oh cool. Librarian is on the list.

on 2005-08-11 23:46 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] velochicdunord.livejournal.com
See this Canadian gov't site, http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pub/you-asked/section-18.html for further details.

on 2005-08-12 00:33 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] dubhain.livejournal.com
I.T. technical support, unfortunately.

on 2005-08-12 01:03 (UTC)
ckd: small blue foam shark (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] ckd
"Computer Systems Analyst" is on the list.

Boycott?

on 2005-08-11 21:07 (UTC)
ailbhe: (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] ailbhe
I'm not boycotting the US as a travel destination - I'm just too fucking *scared* to pass through it. Anything could happen. I last entered the US well before 9/11 and it was a frightening and humiliating experience then.

Re: Boycott?

on 2005-08-11 21:39 (UTC)
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] redbird
Exactly.

If someone were staying out of the U.S. because they disliked some other aspect of U.S. policy and hoped that not spending money here would make a difference, that would be a boycott. What you and [livejournal.com profile] pleonastic are describing is just sensible caution.

Re: Boycott?

on 2005-08-11 22:12 (UTC)
ext_481: origami crane (Default)
Posted by [identity profile] pir-anha.livejournal.com
no, i am specifically boycotting. i am only scared to some degree, and that would under normal circumstances not keep me permanently from travelling because i would weigh it against not visiting my partner in california. i'd been working on convincing myself to go early next year, because, you know, seeing the *poing* only once a year is not my idea of a good time. but what's been happening has pretty much ended those internal discussions, and more out of anger at the policies than out of fear.

i have personal history with anti-terrorism idiocies (during baader-meinhoff), and i know that experience went on my record in europe at the time, but that's countered by it having been, you know, an idiocy, and it might well have long been purged; it didn't come up during my US immigration procedings. also, i am no maher arar; i am pure whitebread on the outside and in my papers. and i am just not that easily scared in general, and i do not like to be motivated by fear.

i'll write more as i get past the fury -- i am preparing to do a lot more than not travel; i am already spending money in-country to a much larger extent than before, and i'll continue to expand on that (sorry, powells, i love you). it'll be a huge change; the US is so interwoven into the canadian consumer fabric.

on 2005-08-11 21:10 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] wcg.livejournal.com
I agree that this is a terrible way to treat people. I wonder if there are international conventions, and if so, what nations subscribe to them.

on 2005-08-11 21:20 (UTC)
ext_6381: (Default)
Posted by [identity profile] aquaeri.livejournal.com
I'm outraged. They're treating the rest of the world like pondscum (I mean, who would think it was reasonable to deprive an animal of food and sleep?), and they think they represent liberty and can't figure why they're hated and/or intense disliked and disapproved of.

representing liberty

on 2005-08-11 22:21 (UTC)
ext_481: origami crane (Default)
Posted by [identity profile] pir-anha.livejournal.com
and the counter-argument is forever "would you rather be captured by al-qaeda?" -- no, i wouldn't, *duh* -- what's with the binary choices? why would a nation like the US want to live down to the lowest of the low? i didn't kill nick berg, i fact i never killed anyone, and i don't expect to be treated as if i had while not proven guilty.

on 2005-08-11 22:01 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] planetalyx.livejournal.com
The world might benefit from a global boycott of all things US--not only airports and resorts, but of all its products.

How that could be organized and accomplished, I have no idea.

global boycott

on 2005-08-11 22:17 (UTC)
ext_481: origami crane (Default)
Posted by [identity profile] pir-anha.livejournal.com
yeah. i've been starting to do it for myself, but it's a huge amount of work -- so many products we buy come from the US, and the research alone is overwhelming. our consumer cultures are so tightly interwoven; it's not at all easy to detangle oneself from it. it'll also make life considerably more expensive, which, while not being the most important thing, can weigh one down.

Re: global boycott

on 2005-08-11 22:35 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] planetalyx.livejournal.com
Yeah, there's the cash--and in my case giving up U.S. cultural products, even for a set time, would be very tough. I loves me my TV.

I can imagine a global-scale boycott having an effect on US foreign policy, though not without having some pretty horrific short-term consequences. In the current political clime, I find it hard to imagine anything else that would deter the government from its present course.

Re: global boycott

on 2005-08-11 23:21 (UTC)
ext_481: origami crane (Default)
Posted by [identity profile] pir-anha.livejournal.com
yeah, it's really hard to even decide what to give up. i happen to not watch television at all at the moment; it's easy for me to give all of it up cold turkey, while it would be much harder to say "self, you may only watch canadian and other non-US content".

but what about books? boycotting american chain bookstores, ok. i wonder about powells; they are otherwise such a cool company. should i boycott american writers? i don't really think so. american publishers? what has TOR ever done to me? :)

i think i am gonna go for bigger fish; those deserve it more anyway.

Re: global boycott

on 2005-08-11 23:30 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] planetalyx.livejournal.com
Yeah, I hear you.

on 2005-08-12 02:24 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] elynne.livejournal.com
Great idea - I'm all for it!

Oh... wait.

*siiiiiiigh*
(deleted comment)

on 2005-08-11 22:41 (UTC)
ext_481: origami crane (Default)
Posted by [identity profile] pir-anha.livejournal.com
umm, yes? that's where i got the info, and the link is included in my post. run your cursor over the differently-coloured text; that's the link. :)

on 2005-08-11 22:37 (UTC)
snippy: Lego me holding book (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] snippy
I agree, that is a perfectly reasonable and proportionate response.

on 2005-08-11 23:20 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] treacle-well.livejournal.com
As a US citizen, I hang my head in shame. Evil government.

on 2005-08-12 01:15 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] azarias.livejournal.com
Mrf. Try being a citizen here. All that stuff applies -- they just don't come out and say so quite as bluntly, 'cause they're still trying to hide the worst of their unpleasant bits behind the Constitution. The parts they haven't already used as toilet-paper, at least.

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